Heaven on Earth

From the point of view of man as he is constituted now, existence is seen in the dual mode. He is trapped in the duality mode with his like/dislike dichotomy. What spirituality enables us is (1) to be able to see the perfection in this world of duality by seeing the cause and effect link, (2) to develop our capacity to overcome our like/dislike dichotomy and (3) to thereafter stabilize us in the realm of non-duality.

However, while those who have reached the realm of non-duality enjoy its bliss, the mass of humanity continue to suffer - having not yet reached the higher stage. Up till now spiritual masters sought to raise the suffering masses one at a time and succeeded only with the active participation of the suffering individual.

Probably for the first time in history, Aurobindo sought to raise the suffering masses to the higher stage even without the active participation of the masses by bring down the light of oneness. He sought to augment evolution on a mass scale, an idea, it is said, the Vedas had in its seed form. Aurobindo experimented with methods and declared success and his followers look forward to his efforts bearing fruit in the not too-distant future, as Aurobindo did the ground work even while he was in his physical form, continued after his death by the Mother. Their efforts are predicted to bear full fruit with the tying-up of loose ends going on even now by Aurobindo and the Mother at their higher level of existence.

I would think when such an age dawns, violence shall totally end, with even the tiger and deer living in harmony. Probably pranic energy would take care of sustenance.

Divine Perfection

In describing myself I do not like to describe myself as representative of any particular thought, because I find beautiful thoughts expressed eloquently everywhere and consider myself an inheritor of them all. But in summation of what might be called eastern thoughts, I have somewhat come to the conclusion that we are perfect and our circumstances are perfect. Our failure to realise this, due to our like-dislike conditioning is the cause of our fragmented mind and a sense of lack. When we get back our wholesome mind, all restlessness and violence will evaporate from our actions. Then perfection will be a reality in a divine way.

But what about ritual massacre of animals?

What you've said, "Muslims at Hajj are one people", is no doubt true in letter and spirit during the Hajj. This brotherhood of humans (or believers) is verily the spirit of Hajj. My question is, would it not have been even more glorious for Islam if that oneness is spread to all creation and included at least the animals, sparing the poor goats from ritual massacre?

Mercy is encouraged in everything, including the slaughter...There are some requirements of the slaughter in Islam, one of them is to sharpen the blade to relieve the pain of the animals.

Also the sacrifice is given to the poor and the needy.

I think you are completely off the point. The mercy offered here is as between AC current and DC current in capital punishment. Moreover, who has sacrificed here? The goat? A greater sacrifice would have been to go vegetarian.

Ah, I see....It is a massacre if Muslims are doing it in Eid Al-adha, and a celebration if Americans are doing it in their thanksgiving day!

Look, this sort of reply does no good to your claim that Islam is the final and complete religion of God. Therefore how do you compare what Islam teaches and what is the practice of Americans in memory of their arrival in America?

Why is it inhumane to think of animals as food? To take a stance like that is being blind to the overall picture of the way we produce food. In some places in the world, growing crop is not a possibility, furthermore trying to grow crop where it does not naturally grow is overall more harmful to the world and its environment (which include animals). Human were made to be omnivores (look at our teeth) and as such we eat living things to survive (be it plant or animal).

The sacrifice of the animal is not for its blood to reach God. The sacrifice is to show you are willing to donate a part of your property for the sake of God, by donating meat to the needy.

The animal is killed in a humane way. Look at the research on the way Muslims slaughter their meat.


The question is not about man eating animals. Some men used to eat other men. The question is about religion and it culturing influence. If religion caters to the baser instincts of man, then such a religion is more a populist religion than a culturing religion. If any sacrifice is to be made at all, why make animals the scapegoat and try to gain merit on account of it? Killing in a humane way is a contradiction of terms.

Elsewhere in RF there is a thread about mass massacre of animals in a Hindu temple in Nepal. So this ritual is not unique to Mecca. However, the difference is that this ritual is sought to be ended, as it has in many other temples, by reformists. In Islam there is no reformer in sight.

Since I've been advised that I am not to "argue" in Islam directory, I am withdrawing my comments and the Moderator may delete the same. I would like to open another thread. Do I have your permission to quote your comments there?

I don't understand what your problem is exactly!! I don't know why some people adore arguing for nothing.
The sacrifice is not confined to the pilgrims but to all Muslims around the globe.
Nothing is wrong with killing animals for food. And nothing wrong at all with the emphasis on the sacrifice in Eid.
We don't need any kind of reformation regarding this issue. But what we need is to emphasize on how to treat the animals well before their slaughtering like what Sajdah said. Some butchers slaughter them in front of each other which is wrong, we need to correct such behaviors.

I am aware that all Muslims sacrifice animals on the day of the Hajj, not just those physically present in Mecca. As a matter the Hajj Eid (celebration) is called Bakri (Goat) Eid by Muslims in the Indian sub-continent. That animals have been killed for food by a majority of mankind since the beginning of history may be a fact. But facts need not be steeped in righteousness. If cannibalism is today considered uncivilized, it could well be that non-vegetarianism might be considered uncivilized in the future. No doubt treating the animals "well before their slaughter" is a step forward in the evolution of man's culture. May Muslims take a fresh look at this ritual from the viewpoint of "ijtihad" or independent reasoning, which I understand is sanctioned by the Quran.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/islam/89241-hajj-celebration-peace.html#post1782272